So much more goes into owning an agency than you might expect. Not only do we respond to internal pressures of employing 80 people – but also to external business pressures outside of our control. It’s providing mentorship, guidance, and inspiration. And it’s making tough choices, holding our people and clients accountable, and investing in the right areas.
For the first time in podcast history, I bring on the owners! On this episode of Question Everything, I sit down with Chief Creative Officer Jeff Warman and President Trey Harness after six years of working together at Curiosity. I’m not gonna lie, I even learned a few new things. If you're curious about our dynamic, or want more behind-the-scenes into life at an indie agency, check out these key lessons we’ve picked up along the way.
Feedback can change the trajectory of your career.
I’ll be the first to tell you that feedback is a gift. You give it like a gift and receive it like a gift. And the best leaders actually use the gift by implementing it. This motto has had a tremendous impact on my career – so much so – we’ve instilled it in our culture. So what feedback changed it all for us?
I’ve had a lot of courageous leaders give me honest feedback that changed the game for me. From saying “um” too many times, to “managing my face” in meetings (yes, that was actually great feedback I’m still learning to implement). But a piece of feedback that changed it all was when a really smart person (i.e., Trey) once told me when I was debating whether I should quit my job and join Curiosity, that I need to “bet on myself.” The truth is, fear can eliminate great opportunities in front of us so whenever you’re in a situation where you have some control over your destiny, you should take that bet every time.
For Jeff, his former agency partner, Ex-NFL and entrepreneur Dhani Jones told him “You talk too much. Let the work speak for itself.” If the work is great, the audience will see its value without an explanation. If you have to talk so much, the work isn’t there yet.
Trey’s, believe it or not, came from Jeff. Who candidly told him in a review 20 years ago that he should “listen more.” We’re seeing a theme here. And, it’s a story you won’t want to miss from the video episode. Feedback he agrees has served him well in leadership roles. As a bonus, Trey offered advice to the next generation of talent entering the workforce. He recommends being in the office as much as possible to absorb the magic between meetings and get cross-department face time. If you’re working remotely, he recommends being intentional in setting up 1:1s with your team and leaders to create similar learning opportunities.
Why every agency should know the Shelf Theory.
Agency consultant Ken Robinson once asked us a question, “What shelf do you sit on?” as he was thinking about where to include Curiosity in pitches. This simple question put into motion a whole lot of discussion and decisions we made for the agency.
We call it the “Shelf Theory.” Picture a giant vertical cabinet of shelves – each holding a handful of agencies. At the top, you have Mischief, Wieden & Kennedy (insert agencies you think are at the top of their game). The Shelf Theory is an exercise that helps agency leaders position themselves in our crowded industry by knowing where they are and giving them clarity on what it takes to get to the next shelf.
How has this helped Curiosity? Well, it started with Ken lovingly saying, “I don’t know what shelf to put Curiosity on.” So we had to do some soul-searching. Which shelf were we on? It certainly has changed every single year. And, realistically, where can we go next? Once you know the shelf you’re on, it brings a lot of clarity internally and externally and as Jeff says, “helps you be prepared to keep climbing.”
Our philosophy for evaluating creative
It can be difficult to judge creative objectively. Trey will be the first one to tell you that from an account standpoint, creative is not seen or heard, it’s felt. You just know it when you feel it – and it doesn’t have to be explained why it’s great. The work speaks for itself. Right, Dhani and Jeff?
But getting the “Pete Carter Tingles” doesn’t happen by accident. It takes dedication and a clear philosophy. Jeff’s creative philosophy can be described in three words, “Art in Overalls.” We even have T-shirts! As Jeff describes it, the best work has two things to do… The art is what hits the viewer emotionally and leaves a lasting impression. But the art is wearing overalls because it has work to do (get people to cry, call, click, buy, book, just be interested). It’s the beautiful blend of emotion and function that drives real business results and at the end of the day, that’s why clients hire us. Some agencies care more about the art. Some, more about the overalls. Our job is to bring the power of both every time.
What can the industry expect from Curiosity in 2025?
We have big plans for 2025. Prepare for an elevated sense of who Curiosity is and why the act of curiosity is extremely beneficial to the bottom line. You’ll see this come to life in our story, how we hire and the outward expression of our work. 2025 is the year we take some big swings and hopefully jump another shelf.
Get ready – Curiosity is coming in hot.
Want even more tea from this iconic trio? Like why in the hell they bought a building or get an insider look at the magic of the Curiosity culture? Or maybe you just want to witness us downing a hot wing at 9 AM while trying to answer an extra spicy question? Catch the full episode on YouTube, and stay till the end for a special Dot Fun Hot Ones moment. As always, drop your favorite takeaways on our social posts, and be sure to leave a review wherever you listen to your podcasts. See you next month.👋
ABOUT THE QUESTION EVERYTHING PODCAST
Part interview, part therapy, part Price Is Right, the Question Everything podcast puts your favorite CMOs and thought leaders in the hot seat. That means while they're facing off against our game board, you'll learn from the successes and failures of the best in the biz who were daring enough to be curious.
