Christine Guilfoyle: Full Episode Transcript

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to Question Everything, a podcast all about learning from the successes and the failures of those who dared to, well, question everything. This podcast is part interview, part therapy, and part Price is Right. We have our own game board stacked with questions that'll make even the most successful CMOs sweat. I'm your host, Ashley Walters, CMO and partner at Curiosity. On today's episode, I sit down with Christine Guilfoyle, President of SeeHer, an organization backed by the ANA with a mission to achieve gender equality and drive business growth. Today, you'll learn the power of the sheconomy and how CMOs can tap into it, why if you want to be a force for good, you also have to be a force for growth, and why your brand's next big move should be supporting women in sports.

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Christine: Christine Introduction

So tag along as we spill the tea on how celebs like Taylor Swift, America Ferrera, Margot Robbie, and Caitlin Clark prove that if you can see her, you can be her. Christine Guilfoyle is the president of SeeHer, an organization dedicated to increasing the representation of women and girls in marketing and media. Under Christine's leadership, SeeHer's gender equality measure has redefined how brands like P&G, Kimberly Clark, and American Express represent and speak to women in their ads. Needless to say, Christine and her team are moving the needle for equality in our industry. Christine, welcome to Question Everything. Hello, my friend. Hello, my friend. I'm so excited to be here. I am so excited for you to be here.

This is going to be a very special episode. We have known each other for quite some time, and I am just so inspired by all that you do. Well, and right back at you. You know, I think it's people like yourself, Ashley, and the entire Curiosity family that makes what I do easier and more rewarding because you're doing the work. So thank you back to you. Absolutely. You know, when I first became aware of SeeHer, I know I've told you this story, but I remember I was, you know, I was loving my job and life was good. And I was sitting at A&A and I heard Mark Pritchard on the main stage. Talk about SeeHer. And it was at that moment that I felt like my entire career finally clicked because I was asking myself questions like, what am I doing?

Why am I in advertising? Like, there's got to be a bigger purpose here. And after hearing him talk about SeeHer, I was like, that's it. I got to meet these people. I need to get involved. And it's been pretty incredible ever since. So, thank you for, well, talking about a fantastic executive advisor and co-chair. I don't think that SeeHer nor the A&A could ask for a better business leader in their corner. That's right. Oh, well, so another little 'spill the tea' moment. So when this episode airs in a couple of weeks, we will have just launched a big campaign for SeeHer. So I'm curious, how are people feeling about it internally? Are you excited? Ashley? Ashley, I love that you're channeling Gen Z with 'spill the tea'. Hilarious and good for you.

We're thrilled. You know, in the past, SeeHer has had, you know, wonderful anthem videos and positioning pieces, you know, on the power of the movement. But we have never had an ad campaign. So being able to partner on with Curiosity on bringing this ad campaign to life at such a critical juncture, right? It'll be unveiled next late September, next week, at our member meeting, right in time for International Day of the Girl and and for the release of this podcast. So the whole team could not be more thrilled. And frankly, I think it's so perfect, perfectly captures the importance of the power of the movement. It's so powerful. And so we're going to be talking about the importance of women and girls, their buying potential, and why it matters so much for marketers to get it right.

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Christine: The power of the SHEconomy 

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So I can't wait for you all to see it. Awesome. Well, we'll link to it since it'll be live. And people can tell us what they think. So you know how this podcast works. We are going to pull up the game board. We have 12 super spicy questions for you. You don't know what's behind each of the numbers. And yet the power of the movement. So we're going to be talking about the power of the movement. And so the power is all in your hands, my friend. So what number do you want to pick first? I'm going to pick four. All right, let's see what's behind number four. So tell us about the She Economy and how SeeHer is tapping into it.

First, let me say that the Sheconomy or the power of women, the $30 trillion global number, of which women represent 85% of that buying power, has always existed, right? And I think that marketers and economists have talked about that, you know since they've been counting the beans. What has happened in the last, I would say, you know, 12 to 18 months is truly this completely amplified cultural zeitgeist. Beyonce, Barbie, Taylor. Women in sports and how all of that has come at the right time in the right package and has allowed women and girls to show up with their pocketbooks wide open and not just in buying a ticket to attend the event, you know, the movie, the sport or the concert, but all of the other consumer goods that surround those events from airfare to hotel rooms, to, you know, outfits to identify them, you know, to food and to beverage and beyond.

And that sheconomy in the case of Taylor Swift has actually had to be stripped out of economists' numbers in certain countries because it is influencing the inflation report. That is tremendous. And I couldn't be more thrilled that this is happening. That's more powerful than as powerful. That's great. I know, at least in our family, we've had many Taylor Swift birthday parties, too. So, well, at least you haven't had to fly to a destination abroad for a more affordable opportunity than here in the States. But, you know, those stories are prevalent and super exciting. That's right. And you guys are at the forefront of that. Absolutely. And we're at the forefront of that, too, which is great. It's like the cash register is ringing. Get on board. Yeah, it's time.

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Christine: Why marketing must be a force for growth and good

All right. Let's go back to the board. I will go to lucky 7. Lucky number 7. Okay. Marc Pritchard, who is the chairman of SeeHer, the SeeHer board, says that marketing must be a force for growth and a force for good. Now, it's a subtle change from what we've heard in the last couple of years, but it's a subtle change. We've heard in years past a force for good and a force for growth. But I know it was an important change. And I'd love to hear your perspective on that. What a perfect one-two punch of four and seven. So, yes, Mark Pritchard says this as it relates to SeeHer. But he also says this, you know, when he's on the main stage for the Association of National Advertisers, the ANA, and why that subtle change.

And we're all in business, right? That's right. In a perfect, idealistic world, we can change society, we can change culture, we can do good and not necessarily be accountable. You know, imagine if we had jobs where that's how we got to pick and choose our projects. But at the end of the day, the benefit, the opportunity, the challenge that Procter & Gamble has as the leader in so many of their categories is that they're in business. And when you're in business, you need to invest your time, your people, and your resources into business growth drivers. So the great thing is, is that they do that. But the better thing for movements like SeeHer is that they have seen each and every person as an individual. And through tapping into resources that they have available to them.

And some that they've championed on their own. For the industry. You know, through their good works, they understand that representation and portrayal of women and girls through a fully intersectional lens drives business growth. And by tapping into these markets that, you know, of course, always through the insight, you know, we're talking about Procter & Gamble here. But those insights have driven them to fully see her. To value her. And to have her feel seen, heard, and valued. And I think that wonderful juxtaposition, of course, it is business. But they have proof that inclusion absolutely allows the growth to come. That's right. And I know they're very leaned in on GEMS scoring, too. So GEMS scoring is the gender equality measure score that SeeHer will do to test the gender equality measure.

That's right. And that's the accurate representation of your lead characters in any film. Your 30s. Yes. Your 15s, etc. And I know Mark has said, you know, I want, you know, the goal is everyone scoring 100 or above, which is very exceptional. Is there a campaign that comes to mind that you think just performed really well for a certain reason or maybe one that didn't? Well, I would never talk about the didn'ts, Ash. You know that. Mark told me it didn't when I first met him. You can share the didn't. You know, listen, I think that the work that they did for the Olympics and, you know, I'll highlight that particular work for Secret with the U.S. rugby team.

I mean, to me, that is boundary-pushing because ultimately it showed the female rugby team, that has a body type and or an ability in their craft that goes outside of what has been the expected norm. And it is because of their body of work that they're able to continue to push the envelope and be continuously inclusive. And as you know from your work there at Curiosity, it's like the more that you do, the more that you realize there is still left to do in the unpeeling of the onion. So I think that you know, that particular piece from Secret is terrific. And, you know, their Olympic work for years has really embodied kind of that true emotional connection, you know, with those day-to-day products that just make the household perform at gold-level standards.

And every year they add a little bit more nuance across their product portfolio. And it's fantastic to sit on the sidelines and be able to watch. It is. And I imagine they've learned a lot over the years because they've been so leaned into organizations like SeeHer. Yet they continue to lean in. And I think you made a really good point. The work isn't over. There's still more work to be done. I think there's a misperception that people might have that, you know, oh, gender equality, you know, women can vote. Everything's equal. We're good. But the sad truth is, it's actually not true. It's so not true. And I still appreciate you bringing that up. Yeah. So it's like, look, everyone has a lot of things on their to-do list.

And we, as people and as an industry, want to be able to check things off, right? Like that sense of accomplishment, 'I did it.' But representing accurately 50% of the population is never a one-and-done situation. Consumers continue to demand more from brands and from content providers. And their expectations continue. Consumers continue to grow and be more nuanced as the world is more intersectional. So this for us and for Procter & Gamble and for Curiosity, I know, is a 365 always-on committed work stream. And listen, it would be fabulous at some point to say, 'you know, I'm done.' We can all check this off our list. Everyone's ad. Scores above the GEM benchmark. But we have a long way to go. That's right. We do. And that's why you guys are such good partners in that.

Because you provide so many resources to agencies and to brands to help us make big leaps, really. Which I appreciate. And it's for the collective, right? Like ultimately, you know, with GEM launching very shortly after SeeHer launched, it was imperative. To provide a metric to KPI success, right? If you're a marketer, you need to build in those accountability metrics. But we learn as much from our members and from the ANA as you all learn from us, right? It is this continuously all boats rising with the tides based upon the level of interaction. And how the industry is leaned in. We couldn't do it without all of you. All right. Back to the board. I'm going to go with number one. Number one. Okay. Well, look at that.

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Christine: The GEM score and how it’s measured

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So tell us a little bit about GEM Score. And then, okay, P&G aside, I know we've talked about them. So maybe outside of P&G. Is there a, you know, important or famous or? One that you go to. A success story that always like comes to mind when you think about the power of GEM. Sure. So GEM, as we just talked about, the Gender Equality Measurement launched at the end of 2016, and beginning of 2017, is four easy questions. All getting to the representation, the portrayal, the respectful nature of the characters. And it's in market consumer testing. Where we ask men and women of all ages. Those four simple questions. And we have since developed where we can boost the samples. So we get an understanding of how Black, Hispanic, and API consumers view that piece of creative.

Add creative and content. The wonderful thing about testing for as long as we have is that we now have category benchmarks. And we've coded predictability. We have predictive themes and drivers. And the categories, as well as the predictive themes and drivers, do hold up globally. We have the ability to test in 14 different markets and do that testing in language. And ultimately, there are global markets where the GEM benchmark is actually higher than the U.S. market. And going back to our earlier commentary. The U.S. GEM benchmark has actually declined. Below 100. And that happened last year. It had exceeded 100 prior. And then, you know, too many people had checked it off their list. And now we're looking to play catch up once again. I'll give you two examples of GEM scores.

There's a very lean-in global cosmetic company that actually Gem tests voraciously. Both through SeeHer. As well as embedding the module into their own internal testing. And there was this particular piece of creative where they thought they had done everything right. And yet, the score was not at the level that they had expected it to be. Or they had, you know, strove for that benchmark across their portfolio. And after a lot of careful analysis, what we found out is that in the foreground of the creative. Behind the lead characters. There was a vignette. That basically, in the question, is this a role model? That role model number was bringing the creative down. Because of that behind-the-scenes. And the learnings that we got from that is that we're also focused on that front of screen.

Right? Taking the insight. Blending that into the creative. And the voiceover. And the music. And, you know, the casting. And the wardrobe. And there was so much fixation in that front of camera. That back of camera actually kind of was fogged over. I don't want to say glossed over. It was fogged over. The same level of attention wasn't placed there. And as a result, they made some tweaks. And then they exceeded what their benchmark was. So, like, I love that example. Because ultimately, it takes someone who has leaned in. Who has achieved their KPIs. And then was kind of thrown a little bit of a wrench in a particular piece of creative. And we hear often that, you know, these bigger, multibranded, strongly funded companies are at an advantage. Right?

Because of all of those nuances. And what I will say is that you have to start thinking. You have to start somewhere. And you really have to take the time and put in the work. And being part of SeeHer allows you to learn from the community at large. And everyone is on a different place of their journey. They just have to strongly make a commitment to embedding the tools into their organization. There are lots of great, high-scoring gem examples. Kotex launched a campaign for International Woman's Day in March about feeling uncomfortable. And using that tension of uncomfortable as a benefit and an elevator versus a detractor. You know, personally, I love that campaign. It gives me chills. But I think there's everyday campaigns that show a market. Modern family dynamics.

Where the individuals within the family are operating in a way that feels modern nuanced and elevated. That bring me as much joy as those spots that really are looking to quantumly change the conversation for women and girls. That's great. And you've got how many pieces of creative have you tested? We've tested over 300,000 pieces of advertising and content globally. And, you know, listen, everybody can gem test. It was a gift to the industry. It is open-sourced. We'll help you embed it into your work streams. Again, this is something that is for all of you marketers and media companies, and agencies to tap into. The benefits of testing with SeeHer. Through the Gem credits that you're allotted in membership, is that you continue to build upon our database.

So that we're able to, you know, do the benchmarks. Do the category norms. Provide the predictive themes and drivers. So that all of us can tap into that nuanced understanding in the research and analytics. And we talked about being a force for good and a force for growth. And I think the Gem very clearly demonstrates that. The higher you score on Gem, the higher likelihood you have of increasing brand affinity. Even sales. There is proven research that shows higher Gem, higher rate of return of sales. That's absolutely right. We know in brand reputation, purchase intent, and call to action, high Gem scoring ads do better in those categories than non-benchmark reaching creative. But we also know specifically in the CPG category. As you alluded to.

For the last four years, we've been correlating with our partners at Circona Sales Lift. And through every demographic and multicultural deep dive. We know that a high gem-scoring ad drives sales lift between 5X and 10X. Hence it's good for business. And it's good for society. Oh, man. What CMO out there doesn't want that? Let's go. Exactly. Back to the board. I'm going to do number 12. All right, number 12. I was hoping you would pick this one. Okay. So for our listeners who aren't watching this podcast. We have a beautiful photo on screen. And Chris, I just want you to explain this photo to our audience. Sure. So, I think one of SeeHer's proudest moments every year is the SeeHer Award that we give to the CW as part of the Critics' Choice Awards.

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Christine: The SeeHer award

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And this year was an extraordinary moment. We had the great pleasure of honoring America Ferrera for her role in Barbie. I believe her speech on what it's like to be a woman will go down in history as one of the most simple, although highly complicated monologues. That a character could give on screen that perfectly encapsulated how we as women feel. The icing on that cake was that Margot Robbie introduced America and the powerhouse that is Margot with her perseverance in getting Barbie produced, at 33 years old. Producing and starring in Barbie. You know, a blockbuster; financially, in any way you want to measure it, and being able to have it be awarded so early in the award season. Tremendous. Personally, I was able to bring my daughter Tara along on the red carpet.

She is wearing the leather dress next to Margot. So, in the leather dress. After we presented America with the award backstage. And as a young woman who is in our industry, to be able to experience an event like that. Particularly as a social media major. And, you know, buying paid social at an agency. Wonderful. Experience. But the thing about it. That really moved me. Was she had the opportunity, not only to see how it all came together. And how glamorous it was. And all of the other celebrities that were there, you know, like what 23-year-olds wouldn't rebel in that opportunity. But most importantly, she saw. How gracious both Margot and America were. When we were backstage. And the award was done.

They could have smiled for the camera and moved on to celebrate the rest of the fantastic night that Barbie was set up for. But the amount of time that they spent with us. How honored and gracious and real they were. Is for me. And for Tara. I know the memory that will stay with us. Always. So it, it was an incredibly magical evening, you know, for all of those reasons. I love this photo because I imagine. It was. I just, I have little girls. So nine, six, and three. But I imagine it was just such a reflective moment for you to, to be standing there and watching your younger daughter experience all of this. And experience. Your business in a little bit of a different way.

And what you do as part of your career had to have been pretty meaningful as well. It's unbelievable. Listen, and as parents, you know, my girls are, are older than yours, Ashley, but it's a, it's a blink of an eye, as I always tell you. And you're not, you know, they're learning from you. You know that they, you know, listen more than they'll let on, but you don't know how much they're going to retain. And it's in business. Dynamics like that. That I'm fully able to see. How much she learned. From me. Right. You miss a lot. When you are in our industry, you know, you're traveling. You're, you know, you're not there for dinner. You come with 10 minutes left in the game or whatever it might be.

You need to make choices. And, and what I will say to all of the women out there. Listening is that it is totally about quality. Not quantity. And at the end of the day, they see you. And they absolutely will benefit from you being true to yourself. And, you know, being a strong woman who. Is, is, is proud and who works hard and like, that's okay. And you shouldn't feel guilty or ashamed. For not being there for every moment. It's a partnership. That's right. And what an incredible leadership lesson in that too. Totally. Yeah. Those quality interactions are so important in Margo and America too. Just demonstrated that in spades, which is incredible. Unbelievable. All right. I don't know if we can top that question, but let's go back to the board.

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Christine: The Taylor Swift effect 

Okay, I'm going to go to nine. All right. Number nine. Oh, you mentioned Taylor Swift a little bit earlier. Yeah. Yeah. Let's talk about the Taylor Swift effect. It is real. We feel it as a mom. My kids care a lot about football. Unfortunately, they were rooting for the Chiefs this week and not the Bengals, which broke my husband's heart because they wanted Taylor Swift's team to win. But the NFL is more popular among young women now than ever. And I'm curious, what's your take? And is there anything else the NFL should be doing to build a more inclusive fan base? Listen. I think that Tim Ellis, the CMO of the NFL, you know, as it relates to the NFL as a league, and then what the teams have done is extraordinary, right?

I mean, ultimately, they represent communities at the team level. And then, obviously, they represent from a league level, the multitude of fan engagements. When Taylor announced her relationship with Travis Kelce last year, in November, his jersey increased by like 440% in sales. Again, that's the Taylor effect. But what I think it also has done is that it has bridged relationships within the family dynamic, right between fathers and daughters, between mothers and sons, right? Like this. Is the all-American sport. And I think that those who gather around the screen to watch have become broadened. But the NFL has done that before. Right. You know, a couple of years ago now, the LGBTQ community probably did not feel as seen and valued by the NFL. They have a fantastic piece of creative between two fathers.

Who are huge football fans, but had really not introduced their son because they didn't know if it was a space for them. And that particular piece of creative is extraordinary, right? Fully inclusive, high energy. And you know, really very specifically focused showcasing on that particular segment. Two years ago, they released the NFL, a piece of creative featuring Diana Flores. It's a great show. And, you know, out of 72 and Sonny, we love this particular piece of work. And we love Diana, where she has the Mexican flag football captain and advocate for women's flag football to, you know, have a global stage, you know, is running from Billie Jean King and many other celebrities and at the end, her mother, right in her quest to elevate.

The portrayal and the representation of women and women athletes in the game, and how brilliantly placed right before the halftime show where Rihanna was going to be the performer, right? You know, in another year, depending on the talent that may not have been a great placement. So listen, I, I give them an eight plus, I give them an eight plus for understanding that it is fully about every week. As it relates to their audience and how they have consistently looked to lean in. Talk a little bit about women in sports. I know another pillar for see her is increasing the accurate portrayal of women and young girls in sports. And it's important. Yeah. And I'd love, I'd love you to talk a little bit about that.

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Christine: The rise of women and girls in sports

Well, listen, I mean, again, you know, talk about a moment. 50 years. 50 years after Title Nine and the great work that Billie Jean King has done with the Women's Sports Foundation. It actually seems like the momentum is accelerating, right? So not only is it in, you know, who's showing up for these events and we obviously can talk about the Olympics. If the American women were a country, they would have had the third-highest medal count. Um, if we're talking about the Women's World Cup and the national teams, you know, that. Exists today, but had come before, you know, athletes like Megan Rapinoe and Alex Morgan, who just, uh, retired like their work in equal pay in equal distribution in equal sponsorship deals, raises it up, um, towards that momentum. Yeah.

But I'll call out things like Nebraska women's volleyball, where the athletic director challenged the coach to dream big. And his dreaming big meant having a volleyball women's volleyball in the football stadium, which by the way, does not sell out for football and 90,000 plus attendees came for a volleyball women's volleyball game. Yeah. The NIL deals with what, uh, college athletes are now able to do the Caitlin Clark, Angel Reese effect coming out of the NCAA tournament into the WNBA, with voices like Dawn Staley, highlighting and celebrating Caitlin and Angel and their barrier-breaking performance, driving more viewership. Yeah. It is just extraordinary, right? And marketers have this unbelievable opportunity that is cheaper by every metric of measurement to lean in, to support women's sports, the athlete, the team, the league, right?

Lots of opportunities to be a force for growth. And, you know, many of them. I would say, um, more than half of our marketer members have already been doing it and been doing it, you know, not only in the United States, but globally, but the other half that either hasn't been doing it as long-term or with the level of commitment, they all have their hand raised. And as a result of that, we're going to be doing a meeting at the ANA Masters of Marketing open to all. Um, setting the agenda for seeing in sports, you know, what do we want to accomplish? What are the KPIs of success and what are the best practices for driving a women in sports practice within your organization? So it's, it's thrilling work.

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Christine: Brands that are doing accurate representation of women the best

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I look forward to attending that meeting. Can't wait to have you. Yeah. That'll be a good discussion. All right, let's go back to the board. I'm going to go with two. Number two. Okay. See, her mission is to portray women and girls accurately in advertising. In your opinion, is there any brand out there doing it best? You know, what is amazing to me is that every brand that we speak to both as members or non-members say they have a lot more work to do. Right. So I think that there is this, um, humble admission that we're not done yet. Right. But again, um, obviously our, our, our friends at Procter and Gamble, I give them a gold star.

I mean, Unilever starting with the Dove real women franchise that has now evolved for Dove and also spilled over into many of their other brands consistently shows up and, um, creates a dialogue, you know, whether that's about tenacity for girls to stay in sports. Because by the way, 96% of C-suite executives played a sport. So sports provides confidence and teamwork that then elevates girls to leadership positions so that there's diversity in the workforce, right. In one recent campaign, they also tackle tough issues like body positivity, right. And the impacts that. Okay. Social media has on girls and in a campaign that truly moves me in a way, as I sit there, you know, as a woman, the mother of daughters, you know, the, you know, a sister, a leader amongst women, there is hardly a woman or a girl that I know that does not have these feelings of 'I'm not enough', um, you know, and I 'you're not enough'.

Lies me to L'Oreal, you know, and their Viola Davis-led campaign where she stares so closely into the camera and says, 'You're worth it.' Right. It's these defining moments, but I have to tell you, there are folks like, um, and you mentioned American Express, but American Express and Goldman Sachs and MasterCard. Right. Right. Who support women entrepreneurs and small businesses and use their marketing clout to elevate this kind of gig economy in a way that showcases that they are aware that the opportunities and the challenges are very different for women. Right, so a category that you wouldn't necessarily think of. Automotive, another, you know, our friends at General Motors and Ford consistently leaned in and recognizing the power of not only showing through an insight how females influence the car buying decision but also in the behind-the-scenes work as engineers and designers addressing the needs that women have that are very different from men.

And I'll highlight a non seeher member in Volvo, in basically creating in the 90's, mind you, a crash test dummy that was anatomically more aligned with a woman's body. Which had never been done before. Right. Like, you know, you stop to think about that statistic. That it wasn't until the 1990s that there was a crash test dummy that was woman-like. And all of those safety tests before have been performed on a male. Dummy. Right. So, you know, it's across every category. I would be remiss if I didn't call out retailers, you know, like Walmart Target, and CVS. Who are so actively engaged with female consumers, the nuances of them themselves, but also as the caregiver for, you know, their family and their extended community.

There is some incredible work that is out there from every category. Yeah. What I'm hearing you say is like no category is immune to this or no category gets a pass. Every brand has a role. Every brand has a role in this and has to participate in whatever capacity, you know, makes the most sense for them. But women are a part of nearly all buying decisions. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. It goes back to that $30 trillion dollar number and 85 percent of purchases. Like it's not 85 percent of purchases that only a woman, you know, uses or eats or buys. Right. It's like they make those decisions. It's like they make those decisions in almost every incident for everyone in the household. Right.

And, you know, to me, those that get that right and, like, understand that insight, you know, are those that are going to continue to raise their share, raise their profits, and ultimately stay employed. Right. 

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Christine: Christine’s journey to SeeHer

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As a brand and as a marketing organization, being able to deliver to the financial community. Right. As a brand and as a marketing organization, being able to deliver to the financial side in your company, there's job security in that. Yeah. Yeah, that's right. All right. I think we have time for one more. Oh, then I'm going to go with 11. OK. Number 11. So you spent decades in publishing before becoming the president of SeeHer. And I'm just curious about your career journey. And was there a tipping point for you to make the leap to SeeHer?

Listen, it's so funny that this is the last question and I'm going to answer it, you know, as I come up on my five years away from publishing with my last 10 years of that time spent at the Meredith Corporation, now Dot Dash Meredith. I had the opportunity to work on some of the most women-centric, biggest brands in the business, you know, established brands like Better Homes and Gardens. And launch brands like Every Day with Rachel Ray, The Magnolia Journal, Chip and Joanna Gaines' Magazine, All Recipes, you know, so whether big or, you know, and mighty or new and sparkly, you know, I had the great pleasure to do many of them. But like all good things, as you move up and the pyramid gets tighter and tighter at the top, I was a casualty of a downsizing in 2019.

And, you know, sometimes those things that happen are the best thing that ever happened in your life, right? I had a very, very stringent non-compete and then COVID hit and I knew that I needed to do something. You know, my husband was not ready for me to be retired, you know, married for life, but not for lunch. And it is an industry that I love and obviously had a lot of time. And. Equity in it and coming to see her and being able to pivot in an adjacent type of opportunity. And in the time that I've been here, I've been able to, you know, go from being in membership segment to all of membership and then as the president. And it is just such a great honor.

And what I will say, it is through hard work, being, you know, fair, concise. And consistent and always being curious about what it is that you're learning and your ability to always learn and do more. And, you know, listen, it's the most fantastic second act that someone with my background could ever have been given the honor to have. So, yeah. Out of one door closing and abruptly closing; another, you know, swung itself wide open. And I feel so honored, you know, for both sides of my career. I don't know if this one will last 30 years like the other one lasted. But frankly, there's still a lot of work to do. And I have a ton of energy to do it. Thank you for sharing that. All right.

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Christine: Closing remarks

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Well, before I let you go, we have a little this or that rapid-fire question that we'll do. So just a few little things that I know about you. So you just pick the one that kind of comes to mind first. Okay. Yeah. All right. Here we go. All right. A&A masters or can? Masters. I want to know more about that. Home and garden or cooking and baking? Cooking and baking. Kindle or audio book? Neither. Hard, like hard copy in your hands. She reads like. How many books a year do you read? Do I read? How many books a year do you read? Yeah. I read over 50 books a year since 2019. And I just finished my 48th book last night of this year. So you're going to maybe beat your 50th.

I think so. And you read them all paperback books? Totally. Well, paperback or hardcover. I use my library card. Wow. I love that for you. All right. Let's go. Keep going. Travel by train or by plane? Plane. Plane. And finally, thin mints or Tagalongs? Ooh. Thin mints. Frozen. Awesome. All right. Well, Chris, this was incredible. You are an inspiration and have been for my entire career. I know you are for lots of other women out there, too. And the work that you're doing to support small agencies like us and big holding companies. And all the brands kind of in between. I just want to say thank you because your mission is important. And I'm just proud to play a small part of it. And as I said at the top of this, thank you. We couldn't do it without curiosity and without advocates like yourself, Ashley. And it is absolutely my pleasure. And this was so much fun. Good. How can our listeners get a hold of you? What's the best way? You can send an email to seeherinfo.com or christineguilfoyle at ANA.net, or go to the See Her website and there's a place for you to send an inquiry. Awesome. Thank you so much, Chris. Thank you.

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