Lisa Martinelli: Full episode transcript

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Hello, everyone. Welcome to Question Everything, a podcast all about learning from the successes and the failures of those who dared to, well, question everything. This podcast is part interview, part therapy, and part Price is Right. We have our own game board stacked with questions that'll make even the most successful CMO sweat. I'm your host, Ashley Walters, CMO and partner at Curiosity. Today, I sit down with Lisa Martinelli, Vice President of Marketing and Brand Experience at Stop & Shop, one of the Northeast's largest neighborhood grocers. On today's episode, we talk all things retail, including her two secrets behind big marketing moves, why tension is the strategic ingredient to a good brief, and why you need to live your brand purpose. It can't just live in a PowerPoint. This episode's not just good for you. It's good for you. It's good for the cart. It's good for the heart. Tune in. 

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Stop & Shop's Lisa Martinelli introduction

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Lisa Martinelli is the Vice President of Marketing and Brand Experience at Stop & Shop. She's a skilled, purpose-driven marketer and storyteller passionate about maximizing brand potential. Prior to Stop & Shop, Lisa was the Director of Marketing at CVS, another retail giant. We have a feeling you're going to want to add this episode to cart. Lisa, welcome to Question Everything. Hi, Ashley. Thank you so much for having me. I'm so glad you're here. I flew in all the way from Boston for this. I did. You've been a client for a little while now. How's it going? It is going fantastic.

We are so grateful to have found the Curiosity team and just can't wait to get started with you all. I know. We're loving it, too. I told the team, that's a really bold question to ask out of the gate, because if it's not going well, we're going to find out live. Well, you're in luck. We are all good. Good. All right. Well, you know how this podcast works? I do. We have a game board stacked with 12 super spicy questions. You don't really know what's behind each number. I don't. I'm intrigued. I know. Well, the power is in your hands. Where do you want to go first? All right. Lucky number eight. Let's start with that. All right. Number eight. So you were at CVS when they made the bold move to remove tobacco from their stores.

What can you tell us about the marketing opportunities and challenges that this big decision opened up? Yes. So back in 2014, I was a mid-level manager in my career, getting really excited about my future and where I was going to go in marketing. And being at CVS at that time was truly a gift. And I learned a lot about what it means to truly be a purpose-led brand and develop a purpose-led marketing campaign. And so with tobacco exit from CVS, as you can imagine, that was an incredibly difficult and strategic decision that the company made to remove tobacco from stores. Nobody had done it. And what I always say about brands who make it and truly differentiate themselves from the competitive set are they make really big, bold moves, and they do it first.

And they do it first, and they really are able to connect with their consumers. And then other brands often follow. In the case of CVS, we had at the time made that announcement, for example, Walgreens followed. And that's when you really put your foot in the sand and a great example of not just talking the talk, but walking the walk. And CVS at the time was really going through a transformation. And so the challenge from a marketing standpoint that we were under is how do we really transform from a retail pharmacy to a pharmacy innovation company? And the company purpose really leaned into health. How do you help people in the past to better health? And what better way to bring that strategy to life than to really make this bold move that then we had the gift of bringing to life for consumers?

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Lisa: The importance of being first to market

And so it brought up a ton of opportunities from an earned media standpoint. I remember being at my cubicle at the time and incredibly excited because the announcement had been made. But there was also a lot of work that I had to do in order to make sure that I was made. We, of course, knew about it, you know, long before the public. Michelle Obama at the time started, you know, you know, going out on social media and really praising the company and just getting a ton of that public support. And it just really paved the way for, you know, a transformation for the company and for the way that, you know, they, you know, interacted with consumers and kind of brought their strategy to life. So it was unbelievable.

I remember hearing about it on the other side of it. So like sitting in the audience at ANA and then I think the CMO of CVS came up and talked a lot about the decision. And I know it was scary. It wasn't easy. You know, the right thing to do isn't always. Yeah. And the right thing to do is not always the easy thing to do. And I think, you know, something else that I think is an ingredient for a really solid brand is somehow sometimes you have to take that short-term profit loss for the long-term gains. And as you can imagine, the basket size of a customer who was constantly on the phone with a customer who was constantly on the phone with a customer who was coming in and buying tobacco, they weren't just buying cigarettes, you kind of lost the whole basket.

And so there was definitely, you know, some risks, but it was the right thing to do. And they're a great example, when you lean into that right thing to do, you know, you will, you know, develop true brand loyalty. I think that's what happened. And, you know, it was really interesting, you know, after that announcement, and, you know, coming off the heels of that, there was then this expectation, you know, you know, what else can you do? And so that kind of, you know, in terms of a challenge, you know, what's next? And, you know, I've, of course, since we left CVS, but I've been really impressed with some of the decisions they've made. So some examples of how they've really kept that strategy going is, you know, for example, taking skincare out that's not at a, you know, SPF 15 or above.

And they've, over the past couple years, done things like stopped photoshopping models in their ads. And so I think just really, really, really impressive, great proof points that demonstrate, you know, their, their, their purpose as an organization, and they just bring it to life in really compelling ways. That's great. Thanks for sharing that story. Yeah. All right, let's go back to the board. All right, I will go with number five. Okay, so this comes from some listeners of the podcast. So for any brands that are looking to get on your shelf, so think maybe startup brands, or some innovative companies out there, and they want to get on a stop and shop shelf, or maybe they just need some more space. Any, any advice you can give these founders and CMOs?

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Lisa: How to get on a major retail shelf

Yeah, so I'd say when it comes to relevancy is the word that comes to mind for me. How do you know, in a store like ours, it's a huge store with 70,000 SKUs plus? And so I think, you know, being really relevant to the consumer, a lot of people are really curious and leaning into wanting to shop more local, making sure that multicultural is another way that we're kind of leaning into, you know. But I think customers often tell us often that sustainability is becoming much more important to them. So if you think about your packaging in ways that you can demonstrate to the customer that you're making, you know, smart, sustainable choices, or leaning into areas of health that may be of interest, but I think relevancy and being able to stand out amongst a sea of sameness in a in a retail grocer is really, really important.

And I will say it's really, really hard as well. So good luck to all these brands who are looking to get in. But I would say just be relevant and differentiated. And, you know, I think that's where you kind of start. Okay, you heard it here. That's really good advice. All right, back to the board. Maybe number 10. All right, number 10. Okay, I love this question. So besides being super adorable, how is experimental tech like Marty setting the vision for the future of grocery? So tell people who Marty is. Yeah, so let's just talk about Marty for a moment, because Marty has become an incredibly iconic technology in our store. And so Marty is a non human robot that is certainly does not take over the role of store associates, the way I would describe Marty, and we've really put a lot of thought into who Marty is and who he should be.

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Lisa: How innovative technology improves the customer experience

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And he is a technology that goes around our store and does really helpful tasks that look out for the safety of others. So for example, if there is a spill or a hazard, you know, you might hear while you're shopping, you know, cleanup needed and, and aisle eight, for example. So we want to make sure, first and foremost, our customers are safe, there's a lot of children that come into our stores, and we certainly don't want anyone, you know, falling or slipping on any product. Marty also looks out for out-of-stock items and things like that. So a really, really helpful, helpful supplement to our store associates. But I have to say, web, you know, we have a spectrum of how people feel about Marty.

So we have some people who are really confused by Marty and don't really understand who is this robot who was following me around the stores. And we have some Uber fans, and regardless of what people think of Marty, I will tell you, he gets so much buzz. And so we're really kind of leaning into that because he's fun. And the way I like to talk about Marty, he's not our brand ambassador, he's not a spokesperson, he's really our brand character, and he embodies our brand attributes. And so his purpose is truly to look out for others, whether that's associates in our store customers; he also is known to show up at some pretty incredible community events.

So he's really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really, you know, a sad but inspiring story that I recently saw, you know, our PR team sent out was that there was a young child who was a cancer patient who really loved Marty, and Marty actually showed up at his birthday party. So he's just out there doing some really great fun things in our community. But at the end of the day, you know, to kind of get back to the heart of the question, I think tech and grocery is absolutely something that we'll start to see more what I can imagine is maybe an increase in AI-powered technology, when you think about, you know, supply chain, or when you think about, you know, at-shelf solutions, when you think about what could the future of self-checkout look like?

And how do we just have more of a personalized experience for people in store? And so I'm certainly excited and curious about that. I think what people say they want, and then what they actually want when it comes to grocery shopping experiences can be different. So, you know, we're just, you know, dipping our toe in the water, but definitely want to lean into that for sure. I love hearing stories of like technology and AI for good. Yeah, I feel like there's so much conversation right now about how it's taking jobs. Yeah, replacing human jobs with Marty is an excellent example of that. You know, there will never be one less associate because we have Marty in our stores, but he's helpful. And he's, you know, just a genuine brand character who, you know, kind of supports our brand attributes.

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Lisa: What CMOs should bring to the review process

And we love Marty. I love Marty. Yes. All right, back to the board. All right, maybe question number one. Let's go. Okay, so you just recently ran a review, an agency review, we were in it, and we're very lucky to have won. And I know there's a lot of CMOs and marketers listening. Yeah, thinking about putting the business up for review, or maybe they just did. They're considering it. Is there any advice that you can give CMOs out there about the review process? Would you learn? Absolutely. So one is be accountable for your business case. You need to ensure that you're giving, you know, the right level of information. You need to ensure that you're giving the right level of information, that you're giving a challenge that will really be something that enables you to see how the agency, the potential agency works.

So I think putting the work in to a really smart challenge and ensuring that the potential agency teams are equipped with all the information they know. It's a really, I have a lot of empathy, actually, you know, after going through this process, you know, a few times now in my career for the potential agencies on the other side, and it's hard. And so the more work you put in upfront to your business case, and a really smart, but fair challenge, I think is really, really important. And the second piece of advice is don't expect perfection. And I think sometimes I hear, you know, peers of mine in the industry, well, you know, this mistake happened, or that meeting didn't go great.

That's actually an opportunity not to say, oh, forget it, let's move on to the next one, but an opportunity to say, okay, in everyday life, we're not going to always have good meetings. You know, every day, I have some good meetings, and I have some bad meetings. But seeing how the team responds in a situation that might not be ideal throughout the pitch process. So I think just being open and really kind of, you know, getting a vibe for the culture and the feel and not expecting it to go perfect. And I think that's really an important perspective to have throughout. Yeah, I think I really appreciated that with you guys. You were available for questions. We ask a lot of questions. We did not nail the tissue session, probably because you guys did give us a real challenge.

It was a real business challenge that you're facing. It was hard. You wanted to solve and we didn't have time to solve it. You know, we gave it our best shot. Tissue session came. And you gave us really good feedback. Yeah, like really honest feedback. And I think I know we really appreciated that we took that to heart so that the next time that we showed up, it was, you know, we were much further ahead. You guys nailed it. And this is kind of interesting. But the way that it went, I wouldn't change it. Looking back, I don't actually wish that you knocked the tissue session out of the park. Because what it enabled me to see is how you went from really difficult business challenge, how you kind of worked your way through the thinking it wasn't perfect.

You didn't know, but I in the back end didn't expect it to be perfect. But then the truth is the team absolutely nailed the next session. So I think just like being open-minded and seeing the process through and not cutting anyone out too early. And if there's a bad meeting, look at the opportunity of how you can see that the team rebound from it. Because that's the truth of being in a fast-paced retail environment, there's going to be so many bumps along the way that you need a team that can rebound from that. And it worked out fantastic. And the team absolutely nailed it. And how do you feel about chemistry? Like with chemistry part of your guys? That is number one.

You know, I hate to say this, you know, I'm a mom of two girls. And you know, that's always first and foremost. But we're with our the people we work with sometimes more than our families during the week. So chemistry is probably the most important thing and just the connection you have with the team. Something else that really stood out to me in regard to curiosity. And your extended team is the is the engagement from the leadership team. You know, it's quite apparent and unbelievable how everyone leaned in and was so invested in the process. It didn't feel like that traditional, you know, a few senior people are going to pop in and then pop out.

And, you know, I will say it's been incredibly impressive to me, you know, the access and the, you know, the involvement that I've had with the full team. So I'd say that is like number one. And just, yeah, just have an open mind. Yeah, it's great hearing that from you, client, because I was just at small agency in Boston, your hometown. And we talked a lot about that, how like chemistry is almost an underrated capability or skill that that you need to bring to the pitch process, because sometimes they're just looking at spec work, or sometimes they're looking at the wrong things when it's really should be more about chemistry and capability. Yeah. And I think, too, what I always encourage my team to do, and I feel very passionate about this, it's actually an opportunity for the potential agency team to kind of interview, you know, it's an extension of our team, we certainly and I hope your team feels this don't view it as you know, oh, our agency, no, it's our team.

And, you know, so my team knows, you know, I felt like it's really important that on the on the receiving end that you guys feel the chemistry back from us. And I think, you know, it was so evident to me early on. And if you remember, Ashley, it was really unique how this all went down, because you were not in our initial process. And I and then I think you guys came in late. And so it was kind of like, you got lobbed. You got lobbed over the fence. And we're here, you're here. And so you had, you know, like six weeks less than everyone else to prepare. And so I also had that empathy going in. But overall, we were conflicted out. So yeah, anybody that's listening, we were conflicted out of the process.

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Lisa: Lisa’s experience working at a Stop & Shop store

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We couldn't say yes. And then something changed on our end. And it just it worked. It worked out. It was meant to be. Yeah. Awesome. All right, back to the game board. All right, I will go with number four. Number four. So let's talk a little bit about grocery during COVID. Yes, you have some stories here. So grocery stores were one of the few essential businesses that were open during the pandemic. I heard a story that there were some days where you were you heard this? Yes, you were working the deli. I did. And I have to say, I'm incredibly grateful for it. So this was actually not during the pandemic, there was a point in time. So I started at Stop and Shop in 2019.

And within my first year, we were a union-based employer. And so there was a job action and a strike at the company, which I'm sure people have heard in the news or you know, saw back in the day. And so what that meant is that the corporate employees actually were dispersed and deployed to our stores during that time. It was an 11-day period. I only had to work in the store for a few days because I was asked to come back into the office to help to craft the external communication strategy. How are we going to talk to customers about this? What channels are we going to use? You know, all of that really complicated stuff.

However, I am so grateful for the few days I had in the store, I got to be a cashier, I cleaned out the seafood department, I worked in the deli. And I have to say, especially being new at Stop and Shop, it just gives you a completely critical perspective of the, what our associates do every day. And it was really, really eye-opening. Wow. Yeah. So dealing with angry customers. That I admit, I wish I could have had that, you know, I, it was just a crazy time; advice for anybody on the client side, even agencies, like, yeah, I think we should probably go work the cash register and work in the deli. I think you have to get that full experience. It is so important. And it's so easy to not make time for those things.

And actually, our organization just put a new process in place where if you're a director above, you have to actually spend an entire day with a store manager. And it's so important to have that full experience. And it's I just did it this past Friday. And it was amazing. And I kind of had this perspective going in, you know, it was like 7:30 to 5, and you followed a store manager. And I put my phone in my bag and said, 'If I'm going to be here, I'm going to be here.' And I'm gonna get the most out of it. And I really lucked out and had an incredible store manager at our Dedham location, you know, outside of Boston. It was unbelievable, you know, everything from, you know, visiting every back room, talking to every department head, reviewing the store P&L.

And that's, you have to kind of lift those stones up and really understand what's happening underneath. And it's just going to equip you to do your job way better. If you understand, you know, what the associates are going through. And, you know, as you as you know, from my role, being so passionate about brand strategy, I think a common mistake that brands can make is they forget that your most important audience is actually the employees. And a company like Stop and Shop, we have, you know, 60,000 employees. And if you really connect with them and understand them, they can serve as brand ambassadors. And so on being, you know, on the front line, experiencing that understanding what a store manager goes through interacting with customers, you have to do it regardless of whatever industry you're in.

And it's really easy to not make time for it. And you have to force it and hold your team accountable for it. So, a fun fact about me, I don't know if you know this, but I worked at a grocery store in college in the floral department. You did? I did. I also was a cashier for a little bit. And what was Oh, I loved it. I bet. That would be a great department. Yeah, I had to pay union dues too. Okay. I was making like 505 or 515 an hour. I love it. And I know like a portion of it was going to the union. I love it. But I loved it. Yeah. So you have that perspective. And you know, for me, I waited my way through, you know, college.

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Lisa: Building brand loyalty

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So I have, you know, that, that perspective. But I think all of those experiences are really critical. Yes. All right, back to the board. Okay, how about number nine? It's my favorite number. Me too. Okay, let's go. Let's go. All right. The grocery industry has never been more competitive. How important is loyalty in today's market? And how are you guys thinking about loyalty? Yeah, so personally, I think of, you know, there's loyalty programs, but that's very different than true customer loyalty. So there's a lot that we're doing, you know, to connect with our customers and really gain that brand loyalty. And, you know, what I always say is your, your true kind of gauge of you've nailed it with brand loyalty is someone will drive past a competitor and choose you.

And Stop & Shop, we're, we're biggest in market, you know, so you could drive two miles either way when you leave your house, and you're going to hit one. But are people coming to us out of love or convenience? So that's, to me, the definition of true loyalty. But then there's our loyalty program. And loyalty programs are really, really important because of the inflationary environment that we're in. We have a lot of price-sensitive customers. And also, you know, a loyalty program enables us to, you know, receive data on our customers in a very safe, you know, effective way where we can deliver more personalized savings to them. And I have to say, our loyalty program, and you know, Per Jensen, who runs it internally, they do a fantastic job, and they deliver, you know, a ton of value for customers.

So for example, sometimes I'll be at checkout when I'm shopping, and I go to my app, and I'm like, Oh, my gosh, you can save, you know, $18, you know, or whatever it is, it's a, you know, a pretty big amount. And so I think today with customers needing to save on groceries, I think the loyalty program is incredibly important. And we're continuing to look at ways that we can grow the program that we can make it easier for people. So an example of that is, we really want to be conscious that we have an incredibly broad customer base. And so we started hearing from our older demographic that, hey, I don't have a smartphone, I don't want to go into your app to access digital coupons.

And so as marketers, we have empathy and be sensitive for the different audiences and then bring them solutions. And so we just piloted a kiosk. So if you're older, for example, you can come in, you can put in your phone number in a way that's really easy, and accessible, and then all your coupons print out. And so we're really just looking at ways to bring our program to everyone. You know, we pride ourselves on being an inclusive, not exclusive brand. And that's, I think, a good example of how we've done that. Wow, thank you for sharing. Yeah. All right, back to the board. Um, number six. Oh, okay, number six. We got to talk TikTok first. Okay, so there is this viral TikTok that went live, and we'll put a link to it in the podcast show notes.

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Lisa: What happened after a TikTok at Stop & Shop went viral

But it's great. It was the pronunciation of the word bananas that got people all fired up in the best way possible. Yes. So tell us about this. What happened? Yes. Okay. So when you're going through self-checkout, there was a customer who thought it was fun or funny, I should say the voice that, you know, said 'organic bananas', and then they reposted it and kind of created their own content, and it essentially went viral. This made me so happy. Because to be honest, you know, grocery shopping - we hear a lot from customers is something that people don't always look forward to doing. They often describe it as something they dread to do every week. And so from a brand experience standpoint, if we can bring any form of enjoyment to a customer, that makes me happy.

And so in this case, we leaned in, we saw that our customers were doing something with it. And so we said, 'go for it', you know, and we're, you know, starting to have a lot of fun with that content. So anytime we see something like that, I think that's really important to pay attention to things within your experience that you might not think could take off. And when they do, listen to the customer and go with it. And so you know, my team manages all of our social channels, they've just had a ton of fun kind of seeing where it goes. I think they're even looking at other products and making new songs and fun ways that they can get that out. But yeah, it's just kind of happened, which is the beauty.

What exactly do you want to happen in, you know, an organic, I'm sorry, in a social channel, you want it to be kind of this like organic fun thing that just kind of comes about. So how do you guys think about social today? Like as social? It does it have to be a channel that's driving people into the store? Does it have to be a sales, sales, sales? Or do you think about it a little bit differently? We think about it, you know, we are overarching marketing strategy, you know, I think it's important to think about how do you drive, you know, sales overnight, but the brand over time. And so we're really thoughtful about that balance, you know, so within social, especially our organic social channels, for example, we lean heavily into talking about the work we're doing in the community.

And you know, are there in our page channels? Do we look to drive sales? Of course, you know, we need to do that. And those are some hard working channels for us. But the team has done a really good job at a broad and balanced content strategy that is fun that allows things like, you know, this example of the bananas to happen. But I'd say it's a mix. It's a blend. I think it's a healthy blend. And you know, we optimize depending on what we see working. And yeah, it's been going pretty good. That's great. I've talked to a lot of CMOs who they'll say, like, I don't think social is working for me. You know, like, I don't know if it's a good investment.

And I'm like, okay, well, we got to talk about what your expectations are. Because if you are expecting it to drive sales overnight, yeah, maybe we can hit magic. Yeah, your circular is probably going to do that. Maybe. Yeah, yeah. And I think, you know, when you look at your entire portfolio of channels, it's how they all work together. And absolutely has a role. And honestly, food can be fun. And I think it's really important in our industry to not lose sight of the fact that food is fun. Cooking is fun. People want it to be fun. And so we try to bring that as much as we can to people. I love that. In a responsible way, Yeah, yeah. Okay. Three. All right, let's go to three.

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Lisa: Feeding it Forward movement

Well, you just talked a little bit about community. And I definitely cannot let you leave without talking a little bit more about it. You guys are really known for being, yes, a force for growth, but also a force for good. And a lot of people talk about the commitments and the way you guys give back in the community. But I also know in grocery margins are really thin, right? That's not a surprise. Razor thin. Razor thin. So talk a little bit about why it's important to support your community and just like how all of that works in your decision making. Yes. And I'm so grateful and appreciative that you asked this question because our community strategy is so important to us. So our company purpose is to feed the moment.

And that is really important. And I think we're really grounded in this idea to feed all of life's moments, you know, until every person is fed like we are there as a brand in our community to help as much as we can. And this is a real point of differentiation for us. So when you look across our competitive set, I will certainly say that I'm sure our competitors are doing some amazing things for the community as well. But it's often you might see more of a check-writing strategy versus really getting out there and, you know, and playing a role and rolling your sleeves up and just helping, you know, people. And so we were really feeling like we needed a more effective way to communicate our strategy.

And so maybe about a year and a half ago, we developed what we call our Feed It Forward strategy, which is really our philanthropic approach. And anything that has to do with the good that we're doing in the community, that's kind of the lens that we tell our story. And it's grounded in that idea of, you know, pay it forward. How do we feed it forward? What can we do to just continue to bring, you know, food to people in need? And so the the proof point that all incredibly proud of is Jennifer Barr, who leads our PR team; her PR and community team have done this incredible work around our school food pantry. We have about 250 school food pantries today.

The goal that Jen's team is working towards is to essentially have a school food pantry associated with every single one of our stores and the store managers get really involved in, you know, what it is, is students, from young through college, any families that need, you know, help, we are there to stock the food pantries and really help families. And so one of the things that we've learned over the years is we're a really humble brand, which we're proud of, but we needed to start to tell our story a bit more, you know, we weren't getting, you know, credit, people weren't seeing what we were doing. And so we've really leaned into telling that story. And so you'll see that across our, you know, our communication channels, just getting the word out, letting people know that we are there to feed it forward.

Regardless of the scenario. Yeah, that's great. I imagine that your employees also find a lot of joy and happiness being able to give back to Yeah, it's really inspiring a lot of a lot of pride in it. Again, you know, it's an example, you can't have a company purpose that just lives in a PowerPoint document off on a server somewhere, you have to live it. And so we've all worked the school food pantries, we've, you know, we've handed out, you know, turkeys at Thanksgiving, we've done all those things. And it's really, really important to show customers, what you're doing for the people that, you know, in their community that that surround them. And so we're really passionate about it. And it's, it's continuing to have a ton of success in terms of just pure helping people.

And it's really important to live your brand purpose, live your brand purpose, you know, it cannot be in a PowerPoint, it has to be, you know, out there with the associates and the people. And we're really, really proud of this. Love that. All right, back to the board. Why don't we go with number two? Let's go number two. All right. So how do you evaluate strategy? We've talked a lot about strategy. And I know the importance you rightfully so put on it and your team puts on it. Yes. And then also, how does that lead to you evaluating good creative? Yes, this is a great question. And strategy is kind of the core of, you know, my role in something I love, and that I love doing. And I love coaching people on.

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Lisa: How a CMO evaluates strategy and creative

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So I'd say it always has to start with the customer. Insight, and I'm a self-proclaimed insight snob. And so the insight is something that, you know, sometimes I'll have someone like, you know, spend a, you know, a couple hours, and I'm like, that's not an insight that what's on that paper might be true. That might be a true fact about the consumer. But the customer insight, the way I describe it, it's like if you asked, it's, it's often something that the customer wouldn't even initially know how to articulate. It's like you have to kind of ask a question, but why? But why? I call it the but why exercise. And what that does, is it gets you to the tension. And tension is a really important word that marketers cannot ignore.

What is the tension that the customer is experiencing? And if you know and recognize that tension, it enables you to write a really great brief. So I always obsess over the tension and the customer insight. And that's what I use to evaluate the creative. And I drive my team crazy with 'us'. I know they're listening. I drive them crazy. Well, one of the things you told me is like, how much work your team puts into the brief before, the brief that we are reviewing with you tomorrow? Oh, weeks. Yes. And that is how you do it right. And that is the accountability, you know, on the client, like we should, our job is not, you know, to just kind of lob something over the fence at you and then, you know, be disappointed when we don't see what, you know, the creative we want.

Our job is to set the agency up for success. And the way to do that is an incredibly sound creative brief. And so I'm passionate about it. Our leadership team's passionate about it. And it's really, really fun. I think sometimes it can be easy to get intimidated by that process and almost like you paralyze yourself a little bit. And so the way to do it, you know, and how I've kind of coached my team is, you know, you spend time on it and then when you feel that writer's block or, you know, sleep on it and then go back to it the next day. And then, you know, also leveraging data and insights. So we do a lot of partnership with our internal insights team.

And I just want to obsess over the customer, know every single thing I can about how they feel about whatever the topic is that you're writing the brief on. Mm-hmm. So put the time in. Whatever time you think you need for a brief, double it and just put the time in. And then when you're reviewing creative, then it goes back to that tension, right? Yes. You want to feel the solution to that tension. And that word, like, it's kind of like this aha moment. Like, I didn't think about tension. And it really can change the way the work comes to life. And it can be hard to get to. Yeah. Yeah. All right. Let's see. I think we have time for one more. All right. Seven. Let's go with seven.

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Lisa: The benefits of having an in-house content studio

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All right. So you have built an in-house content studio. And I know a lot of our clients, a lot of people I'm talking to are thinking about bringing some of that content in-house. And how do agencies and my own in-house content studio work together? And I would love just to hear, like, how it's going, how it is, is it paying off for you guys? Any advice that you can give? Absolutely. So, yeah. So being in the food industry, it's really important for us to have a space where you can literally create. And so we have an in-house studio that is a full, beautiful kitchen. It's not a full functioning working kitchen, but I think enough that, you know, we can certainly create where we need to.

And so I think just having the balance of being able to be scrappy and nimble, again, being in retail, there's times where it's like, okay, we need to go create that today or tomorrow, and just being equipped to do that. And then there's absolutely times where we need to lean on our agency partners for more, well-thought-out, longer-term, you know, production. So I think for us, it's just been just critical to be able to kind of, we create a lot of content, you know, we support a ton of different categories and it's been fantastic just having a team, you know, right around the corner that can. So I think having that flexibility, I think as marketers, we need flexibility. And I think it's been incredibly beneficial and it has absolutely paid off.

I think there is a thing where you can overproduce and overthink. And sometimes we just need, like quick scrappy stuff and it's great. That's right. And from an agency perspective, I think sometimes clients can think that we get intimidated by that or we don't want to work with them. And the answer is no, at least from my perspective, we love it when clients have that kind of access and we can partner together and share ideas. And use the space if needed. And I think too, I think one piece of advice I'll give on it, it's really important to know that distinction of, and what's your strategy for when you lean on your in-house team and when you lean on your clients. And I think that's a really important thing to know.

And I think that's a really important thing to know. And I think that's a really important thing to know. And I think your agency team, and we have a fantastic in-house team and a fantastic agency team. So it works great. But I think, again, just going back to that flexibility, it's been really, I would highly recommend it, depending on the industry and the category, but for food, you need a kitchen. Love that. All right. So I don't know if you know this, but at the end of every podcast, we do a little dot fun, this or that. So it's rapid fire. And just the first thing that comes, you have to pick one or the other. Okay. Are you ready? All right. We're going to have a little fun. Here we go.

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Lisa: Closing remarks

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Alright. A CVS receipt or a Stop and Shop receipt? Come on. CVS receipts are Halloween costumes. We'll go with that. Right. Okay. Love that. Okay. Folklore or Evermore? Oh, folklore. Irish dancing or salsa dancing? Come on. I live with one. Irish. Working the deli or the bakery? Donuts, Ashley. Speaking of, a donut or a Jeff Ruby sneaker cake? I mean, I'll take the sneaker cake. All day. All day, every day. Oh, this was so much fun. Did you have fun? Loved it. Thank you so much for having me. This was great. Thank you for coming. Bye.

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